[Suggestion] Alternate hedgehog switching

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KoBeWi
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Right now, to use Switch Hedgehog, we press Space to activate it and then press Tab to cycle between hedgehogs. However, I observed some people don't really know how to use it, because they expect that pressing Space again will change the hedgehog.

The question is: is there any technical reason it doesn't use only Space, other than working like this in *that game*? Maybe the Switch Hedgehog could use Space instead of Tab to be used? Or be an option to use it like this? It doesn't bother me personally, but it's not obvious for people who didn't play *that game*.

Also, the tooltip doesn't mention using Tab, which is bad actually. (although it will be fixed for 0.9.23)

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Wuzzy
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No, it won't be fixed in 0.9.23. But I am not opposed to changing the control scheme if it eliminates a needless step.

AFAIK there is no technical reason. But ask nemo/unC0Rr/whoever implemented this to be sure.

What about the *new* control scheme? Do you mean something like this:

Attack = Activate "switching" arrows (if not active already) and switch to next hog
Precise + Attack = Activate "switching" arrows (if not active already) and switch to previous hog

So that the “Attack” key for Switch Hedgehog will basically become. the “Switch hedgehog” and “Attack” key combined.
And the switching is over as soon you do anything with the new hog (move, aim, etc.).

I think this solution seems sensible. I'm not 100% sure about the Precise key; it needs to be tested if it won't cause trouble in other situations where this key is used.

Lyberta
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I think the idea is not to subtract switch ammo until the hedgehog has been switched. I'm not sure what the best keypresses would be.

KoBeWi
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Lyberta allegedly wrote:
I think the idea is not to subtract switch ammo until the hedgehog has been switched.
But it already uses ammo as soon as you activate the switching (and arrows appear).

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nemo
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so... right now if I want to switch-and-attack, I would activate switch with the attack key, switch with tab, then hit spacebar w/ new hog to attack.

I personally would find using spacebar to repeatedly switch kind of confusing when it comes to doing the attack w/ the 2nd hog.

I agree noobs find current behaviour confusing. I'm not sure spacebar would be any clearer. Some people try to use the arrow keys. Maybe we should use that. And/or mousewheel. Runs into same confusion as to how to stop switching that using attack key does... So maybe not any clearer.

It'd good that the tooltip has been clarified. Not that people read it.

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KoBeWi
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Then maybe a "Tab" label should appear briefly, when you activate the switch? So you know that you have to press that key to switch.

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Wuzzy
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I am starting to think this is a solution in search for a problem. Note: I currently have no real preferrence over either control scheme (current one vs. suggested one). But I am not sure if this is THAT important.
I agree with nemo that the “Space only” control scheme may not be much better. What is more important is that the controls are made clear to the player.

How many complaints from newbies did we have about Switch Hedgehog so far (since 0.9.22)?

The tooltip is already fixed in 0.9.22. And I *think* the tooltip is clear enough. But I am willing to accept evidence (read: a “Let's Play” video) to the contrary.

The previous user who complained was using a version from the distant past (0.9.20) where the updated tooltip was not present.

Additional, Switch Hedgehog has a wiki page (Switch Hedgehog) and even a FAQ entry: https://hedgewars.org/node/6773
Not that these are an excuse for not having proper in-game documentation, of course. But I have the audacity to claim that we already have the required in-game documentation. :P

I would be against using the direction keys; they are used for aiming and walking usually and it is easy to hit them accidentally and thus waste one switch hedgehog.

I am not sure if the tooltip is actually ignored by users. It is very visible and I don't see why especially a help-seeking user should ignore it.
The claim that users ignore the tooltip even if they seek help for using a particular weapon seems far-fetched, to be honest. It needs to be proven with a Let's Play IMO. :P

Adding a couple of tutorial missions might also help in helping with the basic controls. Smile

Quote:
Then maybe a "Tab" label should appear briefly, when you activate the switch? So you know that you have to press that key to switch.

Well, I'm not sure. I tend to be opposed here. If Hedgewars would be on consoles, it would make sense. But this is not the case. The real question is how to display this and where, in such a way that it doesn't obstruct the view too much. This is very important! Another problem, as soon as the player knows the controls, this overlay becomes useless and just obstructs the view.
The weapon tooltips pretty exhaustively include all controls already. I think you would only have a point if you can show me that this tooltip is consistently ignored.
And obviously, if this is introduced, then it needs to be introduced for all other weapons, otherwise it would be inconsistent.

KoBeWi
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Ah, I think I know why this scheme was present in *that game*, but it's currently useless in Hedgewars: free switching. Free switching is when Switch automatically activates at the beginning of the turn, allowing you to select hedgehog. It wouldn't then make sense if switching was done with attack button, so that's why additional key is needed.

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nemo
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We've thought about adding free switching as a mode. The Specialist does it by simply activating that weapon on start of turn.

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