Rubber duck discussion

Sun, 2018-03-25 23:58

#1

KoBeWi

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Posts: 564

Rubber Duck is a very fun weapon. It's like Dynamite, but explodes on impact and has less friction when in air. The latter made my brother develop a move called "Chaos Duck*", in which you swing yourself on rope, launch duck in the air and then it falls on totally random spot. No other weapon allows that with the same effect.

This weapon is not without issues though. Worst one is probably it's unreliability. Unless you do Chaos Duck™ or Duck Jump™, you will hurt yourself 70% of the time, because you try to drop the duck down. Usually what happens is duck falling right on your feet and exploding immediately. I think it doesn't spawn where it should - at the spot you hold it in your hand (seems like it appears in the center of the hedgehog, which is counter-intuitive).

Also, the water behavior. This is signature move of this weapon, but I'm mentioning it as last thing XD It's just rarely useful. My most duck uses is Duck Jump*, when I do backjump and drop the duck below me (this is cool pro move, because it requires skill and timing, otherwise the duck will drop backwards and hurt you). I was really confused at first with the water thing, but that was because I didn't read the description. Well, duck following wind is useful sometimes, but most of the time it makes it useless. Usually I'd like the duck to just swim forward as I drop it.

*all the names are made up and totally arbitrary

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Mon, 2018-03-26 12:31

#2

nemo

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Posts: 1861

Brainstormed ideas listed on IRC when we were trying to imagine how to have something duck-y that is more useful.
• Duck airstrike where a ton of ducks fall each one exploding and bouncing multiple times - very OP
• Duck airstrike with one large duck. Similar effects. Less OP
• Duck airstrike that drops past land, reaches water, spreads out and explodes bottom layer of map entirely
• Duck lands in water, dives to bottom, triggers effect that raises water level
• Duck turns into duck family flotilla in water to dig into land more
• Duck ignores wind while doing the current floating attack
• Duck explosion is larger w/ current floating attack
• Duck can bounce some number of times on land exploding based on counter or dx/dy that is low enough (like stuff on rubber)
• Duck can walk on land (and possibly hop)
• Duck can be controlled (land/water)
• Duck can do additional attacks from water (laser/ballistic)

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Sun, 2018-11-25 18:19

#3

KoBeWi

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So uh, reviving this. The duck was removed. I know it was announced, but still, isn't it better to rework it completely than remove completely?

I just had an idea how to make the weapon better. First thing: allow to both throw it and drop while in air. Right now, any weapon you can hold to shoot/throw can't be dropped while e.g. jumping, like you can do with dynamite and old duck. So a weapon that allows both would be a bit original.

Now, the water swimming mechanic was unique. It should stay, but instead of making the duck be controlled by wind, just let it swim in the direction it was flying. With ability to throw, this is much more controllable. Also, while in water, the duck could accelerate torpedo-esque forward and make a big explosion upon hitting land (like, 2x or 3x grenade explosion).

And since the duck could be thrown, interaction with land could be changed too. Instead of simply exploding, it could bounce few times doing small explosions (half or even 1/3 of grenade) on each bounce. On last bounce it could explode like the old version did.

Any chance the duck could be restored with this rework or its code was removed completely? >_>

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Sun, 2018-11-25 20:51

#4

nemo

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In a FOSS system with version control no code is lost forever ☺

If you have a useful patch feel free to submit it. You're welcome to have access to the draft repo if you want to commit it directly. Just drop by IRC.

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Mon, 2018-11-26 01:17

#5

KoBeWi

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nemo allegedly wrote:

If you have a useful patch feel free to submit it.

Rip duck :/

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Sat, 2018-12-01 13:25

#6

Wuzzy

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Quote:

So uh, reviving this. The duck was removed. I know it was announced, but still, isn't it better to rework it completely than remove completely?

I think so. In chat we have repeatedly discussed this topic and had LOTS of silly ideas, but none of them gained any traction. Either the idea was rejected instantly or just nobody felt the need to actually implement stuff.

We had the rubber duck for two versions now. In 0.9.24, I already removed the duck by default from most modes, and nobody seemed to miss it. So I think removal was the right decision.

In BRW this weapon was not loved because it's annoying when you get the duck because it's so hard to use effectively.

So we decided it's better to have no weapon than a (mostly) useless one. If the duck is ever revived, it should be different and more useful.

Quote:

First thing: allow to both throw it and drop while in air. Right now, any weapon you can hold to shoot/throw can't be dropped while e.g. jumping, like you can do with dynamite and old duck. So a weapon that allows both would be a bit original.

Actually, you drop CAN dynamite while jumping! And the old duck, too.
Not sure if your idea would work, however. Maybe.

Quote:

Now, the water swimming mechanic was unique. It should stay, but instead of making the duck be controlled by wind, just let it swim in the direction it was flying. With ability to throw, this is much more controllable. Also, while in water, the duck could accelerate torpedo-esque forward and make a big explosion upon hitting land (like, 2x or 3x grenade explosion).

So turning the duck into a super weapon. Also came up in our design process.
Yes, the wind direction was also often criticized, that's a valid point.

Quote:

And since the duck could be thrown, interaction with land could be changed too. Instead of simply exploding, it could bounce few times doing small explosions (half or even 1/3 of grenade) on each bounce. On last bounce it could explode like the old version did.

I had a similar idea to yours. With one exception: It would be an air strike. Was quite fun to watch. It's obviously a super weapon so should be rare.

But this idea was shouted down by sheepluva because he felt it was too overpowered.

Quote:

Any chance the duck could be restored with this rework or its code was removed completely? >_>

The rubber duck is definitely removed from the latest dev version, but as nemo said, we use a version control system so we can easily extract the old code if we need.

Hi, I am a Hedgewars developer. Smile

Sat, 2018-12-01 21:32

#7

KoBeWi

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Wuzzy allegedly wrote:

Actually, you CAN drop dynamite while jumping! And the old duck, too.

Well, that's what I said. They are "droppable" weapons, so they can be dropped even in air. But anything you charge to throw/shoot (bazooka, grenade etc.) doesn't allow this.

My idea is to make the duck combine these behaviors. You could throw it while on ground or drop while in air.

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Sun, 2018-12-02 00:23

#8

Wuzzy

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That's … interesting.

But maybe also a bit unexpected to players, such a feature is not exactly discoverable (only by pure chance).

Hi, I am a Hedgewars developer. Smile

Sat, 2023-05-20 14:11

#9

Shadow_The_Worm

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Joined: 2018-02-10

Posts: 50

Reposting an old idea of mine from the bugtracker to revive this thread:

Shadow_The_Worm allegedly wrote:

Heya. Do you remember the Rubber Duck from a pair of developer versions of Hedgewars? Well, guess what? I want this thing back... as an actual vehicle (an utility which stays between turns and can be used by anyone. So, let's dive into the details, shall we:
________________________________________________________________________________
Have you ever wanted to traverse water currents without using the Flying Saucer. Do you want to get to the other piece of nearby land over the water without risking your hedgehog's life by drowning it through rope accidents or poor UFO skills? Then look no further, the Rubber Duck is to your rescue. When used, the current hedgehog drops a scaled up version of the Rubber Duck grave/old weapon. In case the duck lands on the land, it'll just stand there, unusable unless you push it into the water in some way. If it's dropped or pushed into water, it'll become usable by any hog which boards it by doing a high jump on its middle point (unboarding is also done by the same method). Only one hog can board a single Rubber Duck at a time. The duck can be steered left or right with the respective movement keys, it can't jump on its own). It is also possible to fire most weapons while riding the duck by using the primary fire button. Weapons fireable from the duck include: Bazooka, Homing Bee, Mortar, Dirtball, Cleaver Grenade, Cluster Bomb, etc. The weapons unusable from the rubber duck include Mine, Dynamite, Cake and most movement utilities. It is possible to shoot weapons through the duck's sides (but not it's bottom) while riding it. When the duck isn't in use, it functions like a mobile platform, shooting through its sides is also disabled when the duck is not boarded by the current hog (trying to do so will just result in damage and possible drowning). The rubber duck has 60 HP, heavy wind and knockback resistance (knockback is applied at any time, wind is only applied on water) and 35% damage resistance (the damage resistance is applied only to the duck itself, the hog can take full damage regardless of it currently boarding the duck or not. If the duck is destroyed while a hedgehog is riding it, it'll harmlessly pop and that said hedgehog will take regular damage and knockback (and will most likely die from the water). The pop itself also happens if the duck is destroyed without a driver. The duck remains active between turns. Water world edge can't be moved on by the duck (either solo or with a driver), it'll just drown if it reaches the said world edge.
________________________________________________________________________________
So, what do you think, mates? Is the rubber duck good enough to be reincarnated as a persistent utlity/vehicle? Or does it need some tweaks to be worth it? If so, which ones? Yours sincerely, Shadow The Worm.

Also, a few messages from the IRC's oldest bridge with Discord:

Shadow_The_Worm allegedly wrote:

About Sudden Death and Rubber Duck... well, it'll just remain active until popping when the distance between the duck and upper terrain is tightier than the duck can operate in.

Shadow_The_Worm and nemo allegedly wrote:

Wait, what about the latest report regarding the Rubber Duck, nemo?

Shadow: it sounds interesting...
Shadow: conceptually implementing it as a water transport vehicle would probably be pretty easy.
Shadow: kinda like a persistent flying saucer
could even auto activate on falling in water like a protective parachute
hm. could be fun to have a utility that activates off-turn
activate duck, hog gets duck backpack
on fall in water trigger float.
exit requires jump

Shadow_The_Worm allegedly wrote:

re-enter also requires jump.

alfadur allegedly wrote:

sounds like kinda persistent equipment
would be fun

Fri, 2024-02-09 01:10

#10

SteppenwolfVM

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Joined: 2011-05-10

Posts: 4

The duck as it is in Mona right now would be a pretty cool standard weapon. Same goes for *every* other special weapon found in Mona and Conti. Maybe as extra set of default weapons? Please? Smile

Fri, 2024-02-09 13:43

#11

Shadow_The_Worm

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Posts: 50

SteppenwolfVM allegedly wrote:

The duck as it is in Mona right now would be a pretty cool standard weapon. Same goes for *every* other special weapon found in Mona and Conti. Maybe as extra set of default weapons? Please?

I dunno, it is a nice placeholder, but I personally think it deserves a larger role than a placeholder that blows up after a while.

Rubber duck discussion

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