Rubber duck discussion

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Wuzzy
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Please post your opinion about the rubber duck here.

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KoBeWi
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Rubber Duck is a very fun weapon. It's like Dynamite, but explodes on impact and has less friction when in air. The latter made my brother develop a move called "Chaos Duck*", in which you swing yourself on rope, launch duck in the air and then it falls on totally random spot. No other weapon allows that with the same effect.

This weapon is not without issues though. Worst one is probably it's unreliability. Unless you do Chaos Duck™ or Duck Jump™, you will hurt yourself 70% of the time, because you try to drop the duck down. Usually what happens is duck falling right on your feet and exploding immediately. I think it doesn't spawn where it should - at the spot you hold it in your hand (seems like it appears in the center of the hedgehog, which is counter-intuitive).

Also, the water behavior. This is signature move of this weapon, but I'm mentioning it as last thing XD It's just rarely useful. My most duck uses is Duck Jump*, when I do backjump and drop the duck below me (this is cool pro move, because it requires skill and timing, otherwise the duck will drop backwards and hurt you). I was really confused at first with the water thing, but that was because I didn't read the description. Well, duck following wind is useful sometimes, but most of the time it makes it useless. Usually I'd like the duck to just swim forward as I drop it.

*all the names are made up and totally arbitrary

nemo
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Brainstormed ideas listed on IRC when we were trying to imagine how to have something duck-y that is more useful.
• Duck airstrike where a ton of ducks fall each one exploding and bouncing multiple times - very OP
• Duck airstrike with one large duck. Similar effects. Less OP
• Duck airstrike that drops past land, reaches water, spreads out and explodes bottom layer of map entirely
• Duck lands in water, dives to bottom, triggers effect that raises water level
• Duck turns into duck family flotilla in water to dig into land more
• Duck ignores wind while doing the current floating attack
• Duck explosion is larger w/ current floating attack
• Duck can bounce some number of times on land exploding based on counter or dx/dy that is low enough (like stuff on rubber)
• Duck can walk on land (and possibly hop)
• Duck can be controlled (land/water)
• Duck can do additional attacks from water (laser/ballistic)

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KoBeWi
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So uh, reviving this. The duck was removed. I know it was announced, but still, isn't it better to rework it completely than remove completely?

I just had an idea how to make the weapon better. First thing: allow to both throw it and drop while in air. Right now, any weapon you can hold to shoot/throw can't be dropped while e.g. jumping, like you can do with dynamite and old duck. So a weapon that allows both would be a bit original.

Now, the water swimming mechanic was unique. It should stay, but instead of making the duck be controlled by wind, just let it swim in the direction it was flying. With ability to throw, this is much more controllable. Also, while in water, the duck could accelerate torpedo-esque forward and make a big explosion upon hitting land (like, 2x or 3x grenade explosion).

And since the duck could be thrown, interaction with land could be changed too. Instead of simply exploding, it could bounce few times doing small explosions (half or even 1/3 of grenade) on each bounce. On last bounce it could explode like the old version did.

Any chance the duck could be restored with this rework or its code was removed completely? >_>

nemo
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In a FOSS system with version control no code is lost forever ☺

If you have a useful patch feel free to submit it. You're welcome to have access to the draft repo if you want to commit it directly. Just drop by IRC.

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KoBeWi
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nemo allegedly wrote:
If you have a useful patch feel free to submit it.
Rip duck :/

Wuzzy
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Quote:
So uh, reviving this. The duck was removed. I know it was announced, but still, isn't it better to rework it completely than remove completely?

I think so. In chat we have repeatedly discussed this topic and had LOTS of silly ideas, but none of them gained any traction. Either the idea was rejected instantly or just nobody felt the need to actually implement stuff.

We had the rubber duck for two versions now. In 0.9.24, I already removed the duck by default from most modes, and nobody seemed to miss it. So I think removal was the right decision.

In BRW this weapon was not loved because it's annoying when you get the duck because it's so hard to use effectively.

So we decided it's better to have no weapon than a (mostly) useless one. If the duck is ever revived, it should be different and more useful.

Quote:
First thing: allow to both throw it and drop while in air. Right now, any weapon you can hold to shoot/throw can't be dropped while e.g. jumping, like you can do with dynamite and old duck. So a weapon that allows both would be a bit original.

Actually, you drop CAN dynamite while jumping! And the old duck, too.
Not sure if your idea would work, however. Maybe.

Quote:
Now, the water swimming mechanic was unique. It should stay, but instead of making the duck be controlled by wind, just let it swim in the direction it was flying. With ability to throw, this is much more controllable. Also, while in water, the duck could accelerate torpedo-esque forward and make a big explosion upon hitting land (like, 2x or 3x grenade explosion).

So turning the duck into a super weapon. Also came up in our design process.
Yes, the wind direction was also often criticized, that's a valid point.

Quote:
And since the duck could be thrown, interaction with land could be changed too. Instead of simply exploding, it could bounce few times doing small explosions (half or even 1/3 of grenade) on each bounce. On last bounce it could explode like the old version did.

I had a similar idea to yours. With one exception: It would be an air strike. Was quite fun to watch. It's obviously a super weapon so should be rare.

But this idea was shouted down by sheepluva because he felt it was too overpowered.

Quote:
Any chance the duck could be restored with this rework or its code was removed completely? >_>

The rubber duck is definitely removed from the latest dev version, but as nemo said, we use a version control system so we can easily extract the old code if we need.

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KoBeWi
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Wuzzy allegedly wrote:
Actually, you CAN drop dynamite while jumping! And the old duck, too.
Well, that's what I said. They are "droppable" weapons, so they can be dropped even in air. But anything you charge to throw/shoot (bazooka, grenade etc.) doesn't allow this.

My idea is to make the duck combine these behaviors. You could throw it while on ground or drop while in air.

Wuzzy
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That's … interesting.

But maybe also a bit unexpected to players, such a feature is not exactly discoverable (only by pure chance).

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