Some random suggestions from a Worms Reloaded refugee

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SwissCM
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Not that Worms Reloaded is gone or anything it's just really terrible.

I like the game, seems quite stable and the art assets are quite polished, particularly for an open source game. A few things annoyed me though (I'll try to tone down any comparisons to Worms) and I have some general suggestions too.

* Hedgehog movement physics are iffy. Jumping, walking, turning and all that. Backflips in particular are unreliable to pull off. There is little point to jumping straight up, so why not have Backspace automatically jump backwards instead? Movement seems a bit slow and turning can be awkward (sometimes you press left or right and the character doesn't respond).

* The user interface is quite good but the camera is rather badly implemented. You need to add smooth camera movements, so for example when it's a player's turn it smoothly moves the camera to the worms location rather than suddenly jerking there. It's quite jarring and it causes me to become disoriented. Obviously I'm not the only one since Team17 must have figured out the same thing while playing worms.

* On the subject of the camera, zooming could be implemented better by having all of the user interface elements the same size regardless of zoom level. Stuff like the the aiming reticle, player names, team names, health.

* Thank god you're using PNG. For Worms Reloaded Team17 are still using uncompressed TGA files that weigh in at 16MB per map. This is, of course, completely ridiculous and makes custom maps essentially useless online. Having said that, PNG can still be quite big depending on the maps complexity, so I propose a hybrid JPEG/PNG format with the JPEG containing the image data and a 2 or 3 colour PNG containing the mask/landscape data. Although it would impact image quality I think it would be a worthwhile tradeoff and would allow people to play on public servers with a bunch of custom maps on it.

* On the topic of user-generated content, perhaps have heavily compressed sound packs so players don't have to sepeately download them in order to hear them, instead being downloaded after joining a server or a game starting? Like, 16-24kbit/s instead of the current 128 which is a bit overkill.

* Make it possible to arbitrarily change the Hedgehog's skin colour. Yeah I know, like the new generation Worms games but then so are the hats Smile

* Anti-Aliasing for everything. It'll make it look pretty.

* Make the hedgehogs out of vectors instead of sprites. Would be easier to AA and they would look nice even very zoomed in. Animation could be smoother too. SVG maybe?

* SVG support in general makes sense considering the art style used.

Inu
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People seem to have the wrong idea that Hedgewars is a Worms clone.
That is not true, tho I can see where people get that idea from, and while this game was inspired on Worms, these are just games of the same genera (not sure if i spelled that right) in the end.

This being said, Hedgewars has it's own "movement physics", and that's not gonna be changed (tho don't exclude it might have small changes in the future to fine tune it).

Changing the "skin" color is also something that is not gonna happen. The hedgy's are purple and that's it, that's who they are.
I think I overheard that there are plans to add "bald hogs" to make it easier to add new hats tho.

... and have fun discussing the rest with the actual Hedgewars engine and UI dev team. Wink Smiley

nemo
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SwissCM allegedly wrote:

* The user interface is quite good but the camera is rather badly implemented. You need to add smooth camera movements, so for example when it's a player's turn it smoothly moves the camera to the worms location rather than suddenly jerking there. It's quite jarring and it causes me to become disoriented. Obviously I'm not the only one since Team17 must have figured out the same thing while playing worms.

On the todo...

SwissCM allegedly wrote:

* On the subject of the camera, zooming could be implemented better by having all of the user interface elements the same size regardless of zoom level. Stuff like the the aiming reticle, player names, team names, health.

Probably won't change. Things that zoom and things that don't were deliberately picked based on need and obtrusiveness in testing.

SwissCM allegedly wrote:

* Thank god you're using PNG. For Worms Reloaded Team17 are still using uncompressed TGA files that weigh in at 16MB per map. This is, of course, completely ridiculous and makes custom maps essentially useless online. Having said that, PNG can still be quite big depending on the maps complexity, so I propose a hybrid JPEG/PNG format with the JPEG containing the image data and a 2 or 3 colour PNG containing the mask/landscape data. Although it would impact image quality I think it would be a worthwhile tradeoff and would allow people to play on public servers with a bunch of custom maps on it.

Moderately interesting, perhaps slightly useful for lightweight mobile ports (where we had already briefly considered this), but not really that useful for online map sharing.
I don't see the complexity and loss of quality being worth it just to save a small amount of bandwidth.
Of the largest maps we have, only one is barely over a MiB, all the rest are less. At modern broadband speeds, that's only seconds to download.

SwissCM allegedly wrote:

* On the topic of user-generated content, perhaps have heavily compressed sound packs so players don't have to sepeately download them in order to hear them, instead being downloaded after joining a server or a game starting? Like, 16-24kbit/s instead of the current 128 which is a bit overkill.

Already done for iphone, although not as extreme as your suggestion. Although the gains weren't as much for voices, probably due to shortness. Anyway, no rush on this one since we don't even have this capability yet, and anyway voicepacks are only about 1½MiB for something of good quality. Plus, no one has submitted even one good voicepack yet besides Armagon.

SwissCM allegedly wrote:

* Make it possible to arbitrarily change the Hedgehog's skin colour. Yeah I know, like the new generation Worms games but then so are the hats Smile

Won't happen. What he said.

SwissCM allegedly wrote:

* Anti-Aliasing for everything. It'll make it look pretty.

GL_TEXTURE_MIN_FILTER, GL_LINEAR already being called - I believe we experimented w/ other algs, w/ problems w/ artifacts on various cards.

SwissCM allegedly wrote:

* Make the hedgehogs out of vectors instead of sprites. Would be easier to AA and they would look nice even very zoomed in. Animation could be smoother too. SVG maybe?
* SVG support in general makes sense considering the art style used.

Absolutely positively definitely will not happen. But I would love to see your patch for this (not holding my breath).

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SwissCM
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nemo allegedly wrote:

Moderately interesting, perhaps slightly useful for lightweight mobile ports (where we had already briefly considered this), but not really that useful for online map sharing.
I don't see the complexity and loss of quality being worth it just to save a small amount of bandwidth.
Of the largest maps we have, only one is barely over a MiB, all the rest are less. At modern broadband speeds, that's only seconds to download.

It takes me about 30 seconds to upload 1MB. Considering that the number of players per server can be so high (and according to people in #hedgewars the player cap is going to increase) it would take a very long time for me to upload it to that many people.

There was discussion on IRC about using Flickr or Picasa for map storage. The API license seems to allow such usage and Google/Yahoo have plenty of bandwidth to spare.

nemo allegedly wrote:
Won't happen. What he said.

It's a shame you're taking such a hard-line stance on it. Although it may make sense from an artwork consistency perspective, having different coloured characters makes it easier to differentiate between teams at a glance.

nemo allegedly wrote:

Absolutely positively definitely will not happen. But I would love to see your patch for this (not holding my breath).

No need to be condescending about it.

nemo
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SwissCM allegedly wrote:

nemo allegedly wrote:

Moderately interesting, perhaps slightly useful for lightweight mobile ports (where we had already briefly considered this), but not really that useful for online map sharing.
I don't see the complexity and loss of quality being worth it just to save a small amount of bandwidth.
Of the largest maps we have, only one is barely over a MiB, all the rest are less. At modern broadband speeds, that's only seconds to download.

It takes me about 30 seconds to upload 1MB. Considering that the number of players per server can be so high (and according to people in #hedgewars the player cap is going to increase) it would take a very long time for me to upload it to that many people.

There was discussion on IRC about using Flickr or Picasa for map storage. The API license seems to allow such usage and Google/Yahoo have plenty of bandwidth to spare.

Ah. Hadn't considered you would be uploading the map. For some reason I had thought it'd be either part of approved map packs or sent to our server then redistributed.

Picasa would work too.
Certainly you pushing out the same file a dozen times would be irritating.
Solution? We don't do that! Smile
Anyway, map packs probably will help w/ a lot of this, allows Tiy to maintain quality control, lets 'em get pushed out fairly fast, and offers a centralised distribution...

SwissCM allegedly wrote:

nemo allegedly wrote:

Absolutely positively definitely will not happen. But I would love to see your patch for this (not holding my breath).

No need to be condescending about it.

Not condescension. Is just bloody hard to do. Thus the "not holding my breath"
Even if you knew how to do it (which you might) you probably aren't gonna, 'cause it'd be a LOT of work for relatively little payoff.

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Oh, what the heck. 1PLXzL1CBUD1kdEWqMrwNUfGrGiirV1WpH <= tip a hedgewars dev

nemo
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SwissCM allegedly wrote:

nemo allegedly wrote:
Won't happen. What he said.

It's a shame you're taking such a hard-line stance on it. Although it may make sense from an artwork consistency perspective, having different coloured characters makes it easier to differentiate between teams at a glance.

Forgot to mention - Smaxx added support for team-coloured hats in .14

Also, I didn't understand 'sactly what you wanted. Thought you wanted blue team to have blue hogs, red team, red hogs, etc.

Smaxx thinks you just want slight tinting. That's not as bad...

--
Oh, what the heck. 1PLXzL1CBUD1kdEWqMrwNUfGrGiirV1WpH <= tip a hedgewars dev

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