I'm sorry, but, what?

This feature has been in hedgewars for a looooong time.

EDIT: Oh, I see, this didn't work for highlander before. However, I agree with nemo.

Yeah. Strongly disagree. Planning next turn is main activity of turn based game when not taking your move. Knowing weps is pretty darn helpful for this and keeps the action moving.
Adding per-hog-ammo to highlander so it behaved the same as other modes is a bugfix.

Well, ok... i dont think that way, but ok.

For me it isnt helpful at all, just makes the gamestyle easier for having forty five seconds to think on your next move (or boring if you have a shit weapon). The surprise effect on highlnader is very attractive for me to a turn based game, like i said, i like the criativity factor of only having forty-five sconds to think about your move. Besides, if your next hog dies, your forty-five seconds of planning is just wasted at all.

And, being repetitive, it adds the trouble that you cant see your last hog weapons... that's, for me, very much helpful on highlander. After all, the gamestyle is all about making a Highlander Hog, so if you kill a bunch of hogs it is essential to know what weps that hog just collected, even more knowing that that hog will be the most probaly kill for the enemys' next turns.

Like i said, it can be just conservatism of me ... but i would like to hear others highlander "veterans" (i play it since the release) opinions on that...

And with bugfix you mean that before we couldn't see the next hog weapons because the weapons were randomly generated at the beginning of each turn?

(oh, and sorry if my texts and phrases sounds a bit confused, im not that good with english)

Hi ivancosta

Thanks for your feedback.

I made this change because other Highlander players requested it on bugtracker, and because it reflects the behavior of our other modes. Like nemo, Star and Moon, and unC0Rr, (and presumably other players) I also agree with the change that was made.

I don't think having MORE time to think limits creativity at all (quite the opposite in fact), but maybe 'creativity' is a bad translation of what you want to say.

If you like the 'surprise' of not knowing what weapon you have next and the pressure that brings, simply don't look at your weapons?

As for your comment about knowing the weapons of the last hog, this isn't such a major issue as you will find out about those weapons when it comes around to the hog before that hog in play order. If that hog dies before that, you will find out when the opponent that killed the hog uses those weapons.

Change is always hard to deal with. Many players complained when I added kamikaze to this mode, and removed weapons like vampirism. But, I stand behind those decisions 100% and I think if people were to play the old mode now, they would agree that those changes were for the best.

You don't have any plans on removing invulnerability, do you?

Yeah, you are right, i guess i cant argue exactly what im thinking in english, hehe.

But when i say criativity i want to say just that is more difficult thinking only with your move than thinking on the others players turns, so you got to think faster, to think "wider", to think and MOVE your hog at the same time, not just think waiting your turn. Because then, it starts, and you already know what to do, you just go there and do it. That's why i said that the change made the gamestyle easier...

When i said about the "surprise effect" is not in a personal way. Of course now i will always see my next hog weps and planning my turn before playing it. But i like, in a turn based game like Hedgewars, as concept of the gamestyle, that you only know your weapons when you play your turn. Like i said, i always though on Highlander being a advanced gamestyle...

But i guess all my complains is more due to my own strategy on Highlander. A lot of times a prefer to kill my last hog because of the weapons it just collected than kill a oponent hog, to make a second massive attack (if, for example, that hog just coleccted a Mellon Bomb and it couldnt use it before the turn ends). Memorizing the weps that you collect (and, if you can, ALL the weps in the game, even those you only see your oponents using) is essential to me on Highlander. And the new way makes it a little harder to do so. When a oponent kill your hog, he may not use all the weps and you end not knowing the a wep that you just collectd, that is frustating for me. Of course, later in the game he probaly will use that, but when this time come, it can be too late, since i think Highander is very dynamic and fast gamestyle (especially, because i only like to play it on medium maps) and every turn you have to make critical decisions (decisions aways based on the weps you just saw in the game, yours and others'. But i may not being able to express my though properly, so i just will give it away.

Thanks for replying anyway, i guess its hard to deal with changes indeed (but when you added Kamikazed i liked it a lot! That was a great modification that turned the gamestyle even more balanced and strategic).

Sooner or later i will just accept this new change as normal thing, but i still think that, at least for my own strategy, its better knowing the last hog weps than the next.

See ya! And thanks for the incredible game that you all are maintaining, keep going with the good work!

Somehow, I agree with ivancosta in some points.

I always felt that you can see your last hog weapons as a bug... I used it, but for example, the player that started the game couldnt know that, what makes the difference in a 3x4 hog game, but not at an 3x8 hog game. Was... not fair.

On the other hand, i dont see any problem on not seeing your next hog weapon, that 3 seconds are not relevant. Even, i prefer this, as it gives the fast thinking players an advantage.

But what I'm missing and was a nice "feature" is seeing what weapons i collected at the last seconds of my turn, what in highlander is almost always. I found that really cool in strategy terms, as you are the only one who knows if it deserves or not to kill that hog. I think its an element that gives complexity to the game instead of randomness, and this is also good.

Anyway, I also agree with devs, as the most important feature in a turn based game, at this point, is fairness. Not a big problem.

My 2 cents

Well, Hedgewars is still free software. If you miss the old behaviour much enough, you can still take the script and remove the offending feature. And then release this script as un-official custom script under a different name. But this works only if you speak Lua. :P Maybe I do this change in some days. Or maybe not, who knows?

The offending version: Highlander, as of 0.9.19:
https://code.google.com/p/hedgewars/source/browse/share/hedgewars/Data/Scripts/Multiplayer/Highlander.lua?name=0.9.19-release

The goold old days: Highlander, as of 0.9.18:
https://code.google.com/p/hedgewars/source/browse/share/hedgewars/Data/Scripts/Multiplayer/Highlander.lua?name=0.9.18-release (warning: contains known and already fixed bugs)

Personally, I do not care very much about this issue, since I do not like Highlander so much. :P

Sorry for digging up an old thread and for asking a stupid question, but how exactly do I see the next weapons I get in highlander?

Right click.

Hmm, when i right click while it's not my turn I see the weapon I had last round, not the ones from the next round, mac bug maybe?

wilhelm, you sure you are playing .19?

yes!
anyways, no big deal, was just wondering

just to comment this last post of awilhelmscream and reviving this my old thread: this bug, that you see the last round weps, not the next one, always happens with me too! but only if im not the host, not every time, but surely very frequently.

im playing the last release, always..

i know that i complain about changing it, but since its a bug, is nice to you, devs, pay attention to this next time. thx!

Yeah, I ran into it too. Odd that, will look into it when I get a moment.