Devs deserve some love <3

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Northsidegav
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I just wanted to let the developers know how much this game means to me! When I was a really little kid, I downloaded the game off the "downloads" tab of apple.com, something they got rid of a long time ago (I believe). It's where apple would showcase free software for mac computers, and I fell in love with this game. I have fond memories growing up of spinning around in my dads office chair, listening to my parents pirated mp3's and playing hedgewars. I'm 18 now, and to this day me, my girlfriend, and my best friends get together on discord to play. I hope it blows up like it deserved years ago, but even if it's still a small community I wanted the devs to know that their game touched the heart of at least one soul out there. To nostalgia, and years of hedging to go!

- Gavin

Shadow_The_Worm
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I like this game too. Despite it being a Worms clone, it's a good one at that. No asset stealing, almost perfect balancing (especially for casual gameplay, the vampirism is the only thing that I've mentioned as being broken countless times), the Hedgewars community over IRC/Discord is responsive and nice, the game has got some neat shots in the DLC department (RPG Mode by KoBeWi and the popular Monarchy script over the IRC), and so much more. All this game needs is some rework, a pair of new weapons, other new content. And I wish it to be a [BIG HOG] in its journey.
The weapons that need to be changed in Hedgewars:
1. Vampirism (sharply debuff that utility's drain factor to the default value of 50%, I've mentioned that one contless times).
2. Rope (mostly buff, but get a customizable debuff in it as well. Buff = make it able to grapple and move land objects if it attaches to them on the ground, remove Hedgehog detection as solid land. Neutral = Rework the rope's secondary weapon priority system. Debuff (customizable) = allow to set the amount of the rope's repeat shots between 0 (infinite) and 5 (5 shots).
3. Piano Strike (buff that by doubling the land space that can be destroyed by the piano's bounces (from 5 to 10)
4. Parachute (buff it by making it much more responsive to the controls and making the wind/gravity affect it more realistically).
5. Homing Bee (buff it by removing the speed penalty that happens on launching it with low power, making the bee more intelligent and (optionally) doubling the homing time).

nemo
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Thanks for the kind words Gavin.

@shadow
You did a feature request for vampirism. And yes, you've mentioned it many times. What would get it addressed faster is making it a config variable. Just duplicate the code for one of the existing scheme values.
unc0rr is pretty firmly opposed to making the bee smarter.

--
Oh, what the heck. 1PLXzL1CBUD1kdEWqMrwNUfGrGiirV1WpH <= tip a hedgewars dev

KoBeWi
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Quote:
unc0rr is pretty firmly opposed to making the bee smarter.
Smarter bee could be a separate weapon, like Magic Bullet in Worms.

Wuzzy
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I take this as a compliment as well. And yes, it's true, only very few players play it. We never even tried hard in advertising it so far.
And frankly, I am not 100% satisfied with v1.0.0 so far, especially singleplayer needs lots of love (more missions, more stuff to do, ...). 1.0.0 IMO was "good enough" for a major release, but there is so much potential for more.
And then we still have a lot of technical debt as well …
And there is still no official German voicepack! Shocking, I know. Big Grin

@Shadow_The_Worm:

Quote:
1. Vampirism (sharply debuff that utility's drain factor to the default value of 50%, I've mentioned that one contless times).

I'm neutral on that one. Probably best option would be to make this a scheme parameter.

Quote:
2. Rope (mostly buff, but get a customizable debuff in it as well. Buff = make it able to grapple and move land objects if it attaches to them on the ground, remove Hedgehog detection as solid land. Neutral = Rework the rope's secondary weapon priority system. Debuff (customizable) = allow to set the amount of the rope's repeat shots between 0 (infinite) and 5 (5 shots).

I'm 100% for the debuff idea to limit rope shots because infinite shots are OP. Infinite shots are great for Shoppa and WxW but not for classical battle because a skilled player can basically go anywhere of the map. There's not much strategy in that. By limiting the shots to like 2 or 3, strategy becomes more important.
However, infinite shots should still be optionally possible because of Shoppa.

I'm against ropes to grapple random objects, it's quite OP in my eyes. Maybe some kind of "grappler" could work as a separate thing tho, not sure.

I do not understand the "neutral" suggestion. What is wrong about the secondary weapon system?

Quote:
3. Piano Strike (buff that by doubling the land space that can be destroyed by the piano's bounces (from 5 to 10)

Neutral. Probably another thing to add to scheme. Fun fact: This is already supported by my gigantic Game Hacks script.

Quote:
4. Parachute (buff it by making it much more responsive to the controls and making the wind/gravity affect it more realistically).

Neutral. I feel like this is too subjective. I don't know what else to say.

Quote:
5. Homing Bee (buff it by removing the speed penalty that happens on launching it with low power, making the bee more intelligent and (optionally) doubling the homing time).

The bee is meant to be "stupid", not going to change. I think a completely new weapon could be made, like an upgraded version of the bee. We only have 1 homing weapon anyway, a 2nd homing weapon would be nice.

PS: I have been very quiet about Hedgewars lately but I have not forgotten the project. I still have plans with this game, but I don't know when I will be really active in it again.

Hi, I am a Hedgewars developer. Smile

kompowiec2
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https://github.com/savetz/worms/

First official worms now open source!

Shadow_The_Worm
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Wuzzy allegedly wrote:

I take this as a compliment as well. And yes, it's true, only very few players play it. We never even tried hard in advertising it so far.
And frankly, I am not 100% satisfied with v1.0.0 so far, especially singleplayer needs lots of love (more missions, more stuff to do, ...). 1.0.0 IMO was "good enough" for a major release, but there is so much potential for more.
And then we still have a lot of technical debt as well …
And there is still no official German voicepack! Shocking, I know. Big Grin

@Shadow_The_Worm:

Quote:
1. Vampirism (sharply debuff that utility's drain factor to the default value of 50%, I've mentioned that one contless times).

I'm neutral on that one. Probably best option would be to make this a scheme parameter.

Quote:
2. Rope (mostly buff, but get a customizable debuff in it as well. Buff = make it able to grapple and move land objects if it attaches to them on the ground, remove Hedgehog detection as solid land. Neutral = Rework the rope's secondary weapon priority system. Debuff (customizable) = allow to set the amount of the rope's repeat shots between 0 (infinite) and 5 (5 shots).

I'm 100% for the debuff idea to limit rope shots because infinite shots are OP. Infinite shots are great for Shoppa and WxW but not for classical battle because a skilled player can basically go anywhere of the map. There's not much strategy in that. By limiting the shots to like 2 or 3, strategy becomes more important.
However, infinite shots should still be optionally possible because of Shoppa.

I'm against ropes to grapple random objects, it's quite OP in my eyes. Maybe some kind of "grappler" could work as a separate thing tho, not sure.

I do not understand the "neutral" suggestion. What is wrong about the secondary weapon system?

Quote:
3. Piano Strike (buff that by doubling the land space that can be destroyed by the piano's bounces (from 5 to 10)

Neutral. Probably another thing to add to scheme. Fun fact: This is already supported by my gigantic Game Hacks script.

Quote:
4. Parachute (buff it by making it much more responsive to the controls and making the wind/gravity affect it more realistically).

Neutral. I feel like this is too subjective. I don't know what else to say.

Quote:
5. Homing Bee (buff it by removing the speed penalty that happens on launching it with low power, making the bee more intelligent and (optionally) doubling the homing time).

The bee is meant to be "stupid", not going to change. I think a completely new weapon could be made, like an upgraded version of the bee. We only have 1 homing weapon anyway, a 2nd homing weapon would be nice.

PS: I have been very quiet about Hedgewars lately but I have not forgotten the project. I still have plans with this game, but I don't know when I will be really active in it again.


The vampirism is already obviously covered in shreds and the opinions actually are fairly similar, so it's obvious what to do about it... make it a scheme option so as I've heard many times (and even mentioned that myself).

About the grappling rope part: Technically, the rope itself is extra elastic with hogs. With object grappling fuction, it's supposed to be a different story: the rope has added weight when grappling objects (objects are supposed to be more gravity effected than hedgehogs when using the rope). For example, barrels and crates are really heavy so the rope should take account of that, being able to move the barrel/crate and drop it, however you can't quite raise a barrel or crate up due to how heavy they are. Mines are lighter but still tough to raise. Air mines are only capable of being grappled with the rope is they are dormant (not chasing hedgehogs), their collision is very small to be grappled constantly as well. Hedgehogs can't be grappled for obvious reasons since that's where the true OP part comes from. Also, the rope can't grapple portals or other objects that are not mentioned as capable of getting grappled. (such as Sticky Mines, Girders, Rubbers and Cleavers). The origin of this idea comes from the Worms 4 Mayhem/Worms Ultimate Mayhem titles - the rope also had that ability there. Maybe make it another toggle instead of a separate slot to save on ammo menu space.

The parachute feels so awkward due to how slow it is, not even speeding it up actually helps to land much either. Regardless of speeding the descent or not, the thing just feels like I'm wasting 20 precious seconds to land to a lower section of the map (the maps in Hedgewars are much larger than those in classic Worms titles), even Worms Armageddon (sigh, that number 1 cult game) has a faster chute. The parachute in Hedgewars is more obscure than even the slowest chute in Worms. The rope just does all the work alone, the parachute's dropdown is so lackluster that slowing it down or speeding it up doesn't seem to have an effect (even tho it should).

Piano Strike is notorious for very poorly replicating the Donkey from the canon Worms, The donkey squashes the entire land (or stops at 25 if the land cannot be broken). The piano however does a very weak storm of 5 3-explosion bursts (which doesn't even correspond to the either of the Donkey's stopping conditions at all - there's a limit of 5 regardless of whatever the piano ends in water during its attack phase or not. That's like, only 1/5 of the Donkey's limit (which is very weak in comparison to the Concrete Donkey's 5 stacks of Piano's power). Instead, it should be more like 2,5 stacks instead.

As for the bee, I mean "make it smarter but still stupid". Make it close to the first homing weapon of the Worms series (that's right, only the missile, no pigeon or Patsy's) It still crashes into stuff without any attempts to dodge that. Also, bees are actually super light IRL, but this mechanical bee doesn't seem to have that lightweight nature on any power other than the max one, which is very weird. It acts more like a robot rather than an actual bee. My idea is to remove that robot part, but make it a very dumb bee nonetheless. What does the bee act like again? A robot or an actual bee (albelt a very dumb one)? If the answer is robot - then it is a robot. And it actually bugs me that it is a robot and not an actual large dumb bee. Not a bee with godlike intelligence, but just better than now (being the Homing Missile replacement, that's as far as it can go).

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