So, just to prepare the shoppa players

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nemo
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Rope behaviour is changing in 0.9.15.

Initial impetus for this is on 2 fronts.

1st, for a long time people have been complaining about the rope attaching to hogs - said this didn't make sense.
2nd, as a number of shoppa players have pointed out, some more... politely... than others, there was a rope bug. It was fairly rare, but could manifest most easily when you were trying to rope knock another hog (could also happen with barrels). The result was your hog getting embedded in the ground.
unC0Rr identified the problem as the rope getting embedded in hogs/barrels as they were checked in and out of the collision matrix. I suppose it could happen now (much less frequently) with crates, in the case of portal loops or infinite attack mode + despeckling.

The solution was that rope now completely ignores barrels/hogs/crates as if it is being fired along side them. Rope will only attach to land/land objects/girders.

At the same time, since people kept bringing it up, rope will detach if the land it was attached to burns or explodes away.

Oh, also impacting shoppa, but not related to bugs, rope length is now configurable. 25%-999%. Personally I look forward to setting a length of 80% or shorter and watching shoppa players finely honed reflexes fail 'em. Big Grin

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Inu
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What I understood was:
"We just polished the game even more and got rid of a few old bugs.
Oh, and have fun with the new rope length option!"

Thank you developers! Big Grin

MiSsEd
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wow, cant wait! Smile

nemo
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Whew. That was not the response I was expecting.
I was expecting.
OMG YOU REMOVED ROPING TO HOGS NOOOOO SHOPPA IS RUINED!

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wolfmarc
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OMG YOU REMOVED ROPING TO HOGS NOOOOO SHOPPA IS RUINED! :P

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Blue
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I wont dissapoint you nemo

OMG YOU REMOVED ROPING TO THE HOGS NOOOOO SHOPPA IS RUINED!

Mrock
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Dude...

tribo
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YOOH

ASTA

Castell
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Nemo:

I dont understand one thing: If that people dont like the rope, and to be attached by the rope, why do they play with the rope in the weapons set?

And other thing: Can you keep the shoppa .14 features as a mode that you can choose in the next realease? perhaps a "Classic Shoppa" mode? That would be good to the shoppa players from .13 and .14 versions.

nemo
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Most of what you said I didn't understand at all, but as for changing this behaviour.

Eh. No can do. Not unless someone steps up to fix the engine bug it was triggering.

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wolfmarc
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Quote:
Most of what you said I didn't understand at all,

me too (: !

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Castell
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you said: 1st, for a long time people have been complaining about the rope attaching to hogs - said this didn't make sense.

I was talking about that people, sorry about my english.

But it's ok, change the rope attaching to hogs thing, the game it would be more realistic (?).

Peace

wolfmarc
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Quote:
you said: 1st, for a long time people have been complaining about the rope attaching to hogs - said this didn't make sense.

Yeah I quite agree with this observation, honestly rope attaching to hogs is really useful during a game. I think Castell was referring to this. But yeah at last It makes no difference for me and the other buddies, you can always rope attach on the ground or on the ceiling to push Hhogs together; this new feature will just change the game approach for the new players, it will be harder for 'em to push HH together.

peace,

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Sektor
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I preferred the old way. I used a barrel or hog many times to stop myself hitting the ground. It was a life saver on maps with lots of horizontal flat surface.

It was very rare to get stuck in the ground and since 14, you could just jump out of barrels.

CheezeMonkey
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personally i like this change thanks Big Grin
and about the bug it happend to me once in shoppa but was rather funny as it made me win Wink Smiley

Mrock
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A lot more bugs on rope attachment to the corners Sad Smiley

nemo
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Hum. Don't see anything obvious in the rope point could that could explain that. All that was changed there was the masking. I'll pull a diff though.

Oh. Wait. You mean the rope cord "sticking" to corners, or the head of the rope attaching to a corner when fired at it?

... ugh. ok. sheepluva's demo is pretty clear. Fun. Presumably related to disabling uCollisions, although I don't quite see how yet.

Ooh. Wait. I think I see how it could happen. Let's see...

Bleah. But shoppa guys had like a month and a half to test. Noooo interest.

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wolfmarc
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Quote:
wolfmarc wrote :
OMG YOU REMOVED ROPING TO HOGS NOOOOO SHOPPA IS RUINED!

OMG YOU REMOVED ROPING TO HOGS NOOOOO SHOPPA IS RUINED!

The PROT(Fart) team FTW!

nemo
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FWIW, it was indeed changing rope head from a sphere to a point. Sheepluva added in a mask to uCollisions instead (to prevent the attaching to hogs/barrels/crates), so all better.

Although he apparently removed the detaching on destroyed land. That has to go back in.

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Castell
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OMG YOU REMOVED ROPING TO HOGS NOOOOO SHOPPA IS RUINED!

LMAO
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OMG YOU REMOVED ROPING TO HOGS NOOOOO SHOPPA IS RUINED!

nik93
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OMG YOU REMOVED ROPING TO HOGS NOOOOO SHOPPA IS RUINED!

Almirante Jerry
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OMG YOU REMOVED ROPING TO HOGS NOOOOO SHOPPA IS RUINED!

nik93
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remove roping to hogs is how to remove tomato and mozzarella on the pizza
as a number of shoppa players have pointed out, some more... politely... than others, there was a rope bug. It was fairly rare, but could manifest most easily when you were trying to rope knock another hog (could also happen with barrels).
... it was fairly rare ... for a fairly rare problem you have ruined shoppa games. shoppa is not only a type of game, shoppa is an ideal
hedgewars power is on shoppa games.
there is not an other game similar at hedgewars that whit the rope you may do same result(worms too)
why for this problem you have not asked for an opinion and soon you have decided to radically change the game?
remove roping to hogs barrels etc. makes the game less realistic 'cause hogs barrels etc. are solid objects and important in the map why they are a vital part in the game itself (not the graves)
you can not hide and overshadow 'cause they affect the game

OMG YOU REMOVED ROPING TO HOGS NOOOOO SHOPPA IS RUINED!

thanks

sheepluva
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Mrock allegedly wrote:

A lot more bugs on rope attachment to the corners Sad Smiley

nemo allegedly wrote:

FWIW, it was indeed changing rope head from a sphere to a point. Sheepluva added in a mask to uCollisions instead (to prevent the attaching to hogs/barrels/crates), so all better.

That was nemo's way to say "yes, the changes made the rope a bit sticky, sheepluva fixed that in the dev version already by replacing the evil code with a clean solution :P

nemo allegedly wrote:

Although he apparently removed the detaching on destroyed land. That has to go back in.

Yep, I temporary removed that because the code for that had flaws which I didn't want to interfere with fixing stickiness. A cleaner rewrite is back in now. (commit #1, commit #2)

About the general topic:
Of course lots of the gameplay was changed, so I can see why those changes were made.
I am well aware that Shoppa's are generally negative towards changes in general (because they made their dedication a very specific fetish :P), but if it really turns out to be unacceptable on the long term then a hw clone/fork will arise that reverts that change.
Even better would be if those shoppa players how have coding skills wrapped their heads around the rope code and find a way to fix the bug without taking their precious rope-to-hog/crate attaching away.
Then we could easily reconsider doing it that way.

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wolfmarc
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Howdy, reading about pizza and mozzarella made me feel thrown on this discussion more than before :P

well, I heard as well a lot of players complaining about this drastical change, as I said previously, it's not a big deal you just need to get used to it as everything but it looks like it's a kinda unwanted change, IMO playing shoppa and not being able to rope attach on hogs and crates anymore makes the game slower :P and I guess to not lie if I say that mostly the players are attracted on speed first and precision then.

Quote:
nik93 wrote:

shoppa is not only a type of game, shoppa is an ideal

I'm not in agreement at all with this line, ideals are something different and they're not supposed to involve videogames or whatelse.

as nik93 wrote, people's feedbacks are important for games in general. Uh I know some C sharp though, I'll surely take a look at the code and help If I will be able to Smile.

Peace!

wolfmarc

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nik93
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ideal has different definitions; I do not talking of the ideal Platonic that is ridicolous in a videogame Smile
i talking about a noble idea, in shoppa hedgewars the ideal is create a fast game when the player may has a period of frenzy when search the crates and at the same time has a reasoning period to find the better strategy to win
then... when they have remove dropping to hogs have ruined not tottaly shoppa 'cause shoppa is indestructible, but they have destroy a part of the frenzy period
then you have ruined shoppa games expeccialy the first part
ideal is complicated to explain
thanks

Mrock
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Quote:

sheepluva wrote:

That was nemo's way to say "yes, the changes made the rope a bit sticky, sheepluva fixed that in the dev version already by replacing the evil code with a clean solution :P

Yeah I saw your fix on CIA.cv

Quote:

wolfmarc wrote:

Uh I know some C sharp though, I'll surely take a look at the code and help If I will be able to .

There is no C sharp on HW Big Grin

nemo
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Heh. Awww, sheepy, yours was indeed cleaner. Smile

I was just worried that the detach stuff would get ignored.

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LMAO
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Quote:
There is no C sharp on HW

mrock, the syntax in C sharp it's similar to C plus plus and Java [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_Sharp_(programming_language)[/url]

doomy
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nemo allegedly wrote:

Whew. That was not the response I was expecting.
I was expecting.
OMG YOU REMOVED ROPING TO HOGS NOOOOO SHOPPA IS RUINED!


Shoppa is not ruined!The point of shoppa is to collect items using your rope.

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wolfmarc
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Quote:
Shoppa is not ruined!The point of shoppa is to collect items using your rope.

quotation from http://www.urbandictionary.com/

[...]The main rules to this style of play are attack from the rope (unless the type of weapon prohibits this), abbreviated afr; collect a crate before attacking, cba; attack all but the person in last place, abl; and kill the cow (the noob or person who violates the rules), [...]

[...]Don't you know the rules to shoppa, you filthy little cow? I'll kick your bloody arse to smithereens!! Bloody hell![...]

shoppa is not just collecting crates sir. (:

peace

wolfmarc.

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Randy
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nemo I agree with having arranged that, but still Shoppa mode in version 9.15 is still several errors when you engage the walls ...

Thanks Randy carefully.

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nemo
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Randy, sheepluva fixed those issues, 0.9.16 won't have the stickiness.

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Randy
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Ok nemo thx, gl in 0.9.16

Smile

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wolfmarc
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Quote:
Randy, sheepluva fixed those issues, 0.9.16 won't have the stickiness.

sheepluva rocks!

The PROT(Fart) team FTW!

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